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Christian Wicca

Erin

Okay, I have a very serious question here:

I want to know about Christian Wicca.

I understand the basic structure, substitution of Jesus for the God, Mary for the Goddess. But I have several problems with the whole thing and trying to reconcile the two in my head.

Please understand that I’m not looking to convert, just to understand and stop deriding where there is no cause.

First off: How do you reconcile the “atonement through forgiveness” and scapegoat redemption of Jesus with the “you are the only one responsible for yourself” which is at the core of Wicca? That’s the biggest stumbling block for me in trying to understand them. They are at opposite sides of the spectrum. In Christianity, you have a deity that pays the price and saves the world from sin by taking all the punishment for that, which does not reduce what He did, but it is a classic scapegoat sacrifice. And at the basic brass tacks of Wicca, you have the belief of the personal responsibility and sovereignty of self. And in this one, the only person that can take responsibility and deal with the consequences for anything I do is myself, I can’t blame others for my mistakes and no one else can take that blame from me. Thus Jesus’ sacrifice and Wicca are completely at diametric opposites in this.

Second: A mother venerating, goddess worshiping, female empowering religion mixed with one that says that women should listen to their husbands becasue they aren’t worthy, should be ashamed of their hair and that they have no life or rights other than to be possessions of fathers and then husbands? How can those be reconciled? In the Old Testament and the New Testament women are again and again showed as second class citizens, those who cannot be touched or who have no rights. The fathers dedided who they would marry and when, where the daughters went and who they saw over and over. This was why it was so important to court the father if you wished to get married to a particular person. The father decided who his daughter would marry. But in Wicca here you have a religion which was originally set up to worship and venerate the divine female, to raise up women from the shackles of patriarchy and show them as people and humans. But at the same time, to be true to Christianity (and the Pauline Letters) the women should be ashamed of who they are. How is this reconciled?

Third, add in the problems with sex and the Jewish/primitive Catholic views on sexual intercourse; menses is bad, makes women ritually unclean and so on. Then contrast this to the Wiccan beliefs on sex; it is fertility, it renews the earth, it is for the increase in the tribe and it is GOOD, a way for two people to be together and show how much they love each other.

Fourth; the classic commandment “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. I know the current apologetic of “put YHVH first and you can worship other gods, because He wants to be FIRST” which doesn’t wash with me. If you read, over and over and over and over and over again, the OT people move in an area and kill all the worshipers of other deities. They kill all the males, even babes in arms, rape the women and enslave them or kill them, and so on. This is for worshiping other deities. So YHVH demands through his action to be the ONLY god in your life, but now you want to add in a multitude of gods, get rid of Him altogether to replace him with Jesus. And Wicca acknowledges many many gods, each for a different purpose and each for what others need them to be. YHVH claims omnipotence and omnipresence multiple times in the Bible, the Gods of Wicca are human like and have never claimed to be omnipotent or omnipresent and sure haven’t claimed infallibility. So how is this basic difference reconciled?

Then there are minor things like the injunctions against sorcery, magick, divination, witchcraft, speaking with spirits and necromancy which Wiccans do all the time, specifically forbidden in the Bible. Then there is the Bible itself and the multitude of problems with the text and the rules laid down, which version is followed? Add to this the commandment, the divine order to go and convert the masses or kill them if they won’t worship him, with that specifically forbidden in Wicca and most of Paganism.

All these and more are the problems I hav with “Christian Wicca” for they are basically mutually incompattable. So how is this reconciled in the minds of those who say they follow this path?

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4 Responses to “Christian Wicca”

  1. Lupa says:

    I think what a lot of Christo-pagans do is take a much more Gnostic view of Christianity, seeing Jesus and Sophia as the Goddess and God. Either that, or they trace the pre-Christian roots of Jesus and Mary to the Slain God mythological cycle. Pagans are pretty good at ignoring chunks of religions that don’t suit them. Even Celtic reconstructionists still understand that their religion is practiced out of its original context. And look at how many people have incorporated (for better or for worse) indigenous modern beliefs into their paths. Why should Christianity be exempt from this syncreticism? I think too many pagans are still anti-Christian, which makes them balk at the idea that Christianity can’t mix with paganism because it’s TEH EVOL!!!! But *it’s just another religion*, folks. If you can ignore things in other religions that make you uncomfortable in the name of eclecticism, surely you can get over your Christian-phobia and draw from that well, too.

    BTW, have you ever noticed that despite the Qabalah’s Jewish roots, that people don’t bitch that it’s OMG the evil Old Testament God? It’s just another symptom of the rampant Christian-phobia among neopagans who feel they’re justified subjecting Christianity to the exact same treatment and judgemental mindset that they hate being on the receiving end.

  2. Uther says:

    Hmmm…I can’t reconcile the Christian and Wicca religions either. Normally, I say that if your faith gives you what you need, then go for it, but that combination gives me a case of the comfusions.

  3. Lorne says:

    First, I’d like to say that I’ve been reading your site for a long time, and that I have a lot of respect for you. You ask valid questions, and though I can speak only for myself, I will do my best to give honest and coherent answers. My own beliefs aren’t so much “Christian Wicca” as my own interpretation of Christianity, which happens to include wiccan elements.

    The most basic tenant of Christianity is the acceptance that “Jesus died for my sins.” This is NOT a scapegoat sacrifice. For me, it means that at the moment I accepted that, I was acknowledging “I’ve been blind and stupid. I have done things that displease and offend my Heavenly Father. But even though I was wrong and stupid and horrible, Father is willing to forgive me, and my dear friend, the Father’s true son, has taken my deserved punishment in my place. But now, because they are merciful and loving, I must do my best to be worthy of that mercy. I have started over with a clean slate, but its my responsibility to keep that slate clean now.”

    While the Bible has many truths in it, it was written by flawed and biased humans. It has been edited and mis-translated in many parts and cannot be taken at face value. Some parts are just plain fabricated. Its also important to note that in the New Testament, Jesus deliberately breaks some of the more ridiculous and discriminatory old religious laws and says they’re stupid. What can be believed is that Father is my father, and that He loves us as children. Like all good fathers, He wants good things for His children, and wants them to be happy and to get along, and for them to be good people. I do not think that Father values His sons more than His daughters, and I don’t think He gave humans such marvelous bodies with the intention that we be ashamed of them.

    I think that God shaped the world, and somewhere in that process, He invented sex. Sex between two people who love each other is a good and holy and sacred thing that He gives us gift. But this gift is not to be misused — it should not be cheapened in tawdry love affairs, or used as a weapon, or forcibly taken. It should also not be shared between people who are unwilling to either prevent or prepare to nourish the joyous fruit that is sometimes the result of sex. It should be shared between two people who have committed themselves to each other, who believe that their union is a good thing and pleasing to Him.

    The existance of other deities, the omnipotence and ompipresence of the Father…this is where my beliefs get a little divergent from both Wicca and Christianity. I think that the Higher Power(s) is too great and powerful and multidimensional for any mortal mind to even begin to comprehend, and that various gods and godessess are our attempt to conceptualize what we know is there, but can’t possibly begin to describe because it encompasses so much. And because Divine power is everywhere and everything, I can belive in my one-but-three god, and you can believe in Rhiannon and Herne, and my best friend can believe in Amitaba Bhudda, and my other best friend can believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and we’re all not wrong. (Well, maybe the FSM guy is a bit…less right.) I call divinity “Father” because that’s what I was taught, and when I reach out with my blind, stupid, limited soul and attempt to understand the Sacred, what I feel is something that *could* be described as a vast parental being to whom I have some kind of value, but that doesn’t even scratch the surface of what it really is. To be honest, I think of the Higher Power as more mother than father, but because my beliefs began in Christianity, its more comfortable for everyone else if I say “Father.”

    The bible’s prohibition against witchcraft, as I understand it, was really a human idea, meant to keep Jews and Gentiles as separated as possible. “Witchcraft” was anything the other religions were doing. But while it condemns “divination” or knowing about the future, the bible is full of prophets. Research on the Christian “spiritual gifts,” as they call them, show that the gifts correspond quite nicely with Wiccan Gifts. Healing, knowledge of the future, Empathy, its all there.

    What else is there… you asked about the “Great Commission?” This is a bit of a controversy even amongsst the Christians. The last commandment given before Christ ascended to heaven was “go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” There is nowhere in the New Testament that Jesus says to go about killing non-believers who won’t convert — that was a human idea that came much later. Because I think my religious views are just one way of looking at something I can never fully grasp, I don’t believe in shoving it in other people’s faces. However, my faith gives me hope and joy, and when people who don’t believe in ANYTHING seem to be seeking something greater, I share what I believe.

    Like I said, I can’t speak for anyone else, just ‘lil ol’ me, but if you want to ask me anything or if something I wrote made no sense, I’d be glad to discuss it with you. Drop me a line anytime.

    May all that is good and true smile upon you.

    Lore

  4. Daniel says:

    I think Nancy Chandler Pittman explanes Christo-Wicca the best:

    Trinitarian Wicca is the correct name of the tradition often generalized into a practice called Christian Wicca. Trinitarian Wicca is a tradition based on American Wicca, boasting no direct lineage. Trinitarians work exclusively with the Goddess-inclusive Christian Pantheon. This tradition is not eclectic nor is it ChristoPagan because our devotion lies exclusively with the Christian pantheon. Trinitarian practitioners celebrate the Wiccan Way, observing the 8 Sabbats, the 13 Esbats, and upholding the Wiccan Rede.
    For the Trinitarian path, there are no trappings of Patriarchal Christianity. We do not have conflicts with the Bible, because we work directly with the Gods and Goddesses; church dogma does not have a place in our ritual structure. Concepts such as the original sin, salvation, baptism, heaven, hell, and Satan are not conflicting topics for Trinitarians. They have no place in Wicca at all; as Trinitarian Wiccans, we do not differ in this belief. There is nothing fundamental about Christian or Trinitarian Wicca.
    As for Christian Wicca, the term Christian is used as a modifier for the pantheon observed in this particular practice of Wicca, much like the concept of Celtic Wicca. Starting in October of 1999, Christian Wicca began on Yahoo Groups as a working title reflecting the an eclectic practice of American Tradition of Wicca. By 2002, this path developed it’s name, the Trinitarian Tradition. This tradition evolved as a group of Wiccan practitioners focused on a Goddess-inclusive Christian trinity.
    The mere term Christian Wicca upset so many people both Christian and Wiccan, that it actually got in the way of the true meaning of the path. That was never our intent. While the term Christian Wicca was more descriptive, Trinitarian Wicca is far more accurate and far less controversial. However, by the time the book came out – the working term had become popular and it was hard to express the concepts of Trinitarian Wicca without using the term Christian in the definition.

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