(Note from Daven: This is a true story. It happened to me. I have tried to be fair in my recitation of this, but I am afraid that some of my resentment may have leaked over. It’s up to you to tell me how I did. Keep in mind that this is ancient history for my wife and I, and thankfully my daughter no longer remembers this time. I am not trying to stir up ghosts here, but just to bring some mindsets to light. Think before you promise someone something. I had hoped this article would have gotten out into the Pagan Community, but so far it has not. So I present it here. I leave the conclusions up to your own conscience.)
(Update 1-16-04: I’m updating this because I don’t want it misunderstood why this page is here. I have written this because I HATE B&B and what they stand for at this time. I cannot stand what they think of as “good pagan relations” with other groups. I have had contact with them from time to time on other lists, and so far, none of them have been positive.
I am not looking to perpetuate a hurt. I am willing to forgive and forget it under some very specific situations. I would ask that B&B put up a PUBLIC apology on their website, detailing what they did to me and many others, and asking forgiveness for it from each individual they harmed, that they prove to me that actions like this can never happen again and that those who are most responsible for this are no longer in a position to harm others.
It burns me up that when this topic is revisited by others and I have to talk about it again, that B&B is in an even better position to harm, and that more and more people are getting sucked into this group. I will continuously work against them and try to wake those who are mesmerized by the spell of a community center that is supposed to stand for the best, but which keeps showing only the worst.)
(Update 7-7-05: Maven finally has commented on this situation. You will find her comments and my rebuttal here.)
On the necessity of keeping oaths
Okay, it has taken me two years to get the courage up to write this, and describe to you all why my heart was broken.
One thing I am dead set upon is the keeping of oaths sworn by others and myself. Even implied promises make me want to make sure they are kept, no matter the cost to myself. This is why I rarely promise anything to anyone, since I then am honor bound to see that promise through.
It seems not to be the case in some sections of the Pagan Community, however.
Two years ago, I was in a group of Wiccans in Dallas Texas, at an ambitious project, a community center, where all could come and be together, learn from each other, and where power plays and politics were not tolerated. It was a difficult time in my life, for my wife had recently lost her job, and we ran out of money and places to live. I had a job at the time, and we were scraping by on pawning our possessions, but it was not nearly enough. We were sleeping in a house with some abusive persons, who thought it amusing that we did all the housework, along with working full time jobs, while they sat on their butts and laughed as their dogs ate our possessions.
Our daughter came back from spending the summer with her aunt, and they threw us out. With no provocation.
Well, we had been in this community center for a while, and we decided to see what kind of solace we could get from our fellows in the Old Ways. Since it was an emergency, two or three people pitched in to help us move our possessions out of the house of those we had been living with, and into the center itself until we could find a place of our own.
Now mind you, this was a place that swore it was in existence only to give a neutral meeting ground for it’s members, and to give aid and shelter to those who needed it. A place where abuse was not tolerated, nor were persecutors allowed to flourish.
From their own mission statement: In December of 1997, Betwixt & Between was founded as a neutral meeting place where people who find divine wisdom in nature, who rejoice in the presence of the ancient gods and goddesses, who celebrate life and the cycle of the seasons, could come together in an atmosphere of mutual respect, civility, and understanding.
At Betwixt & Between, we have witnessed the coalescence of a strong-willed, cohesive community, a community that is learning to provide for itself and for each of its members. By striving to maintain the ideal of neutral ground, Betwixt & Between has been presented with unique opportunities to serve our community by building bridges here and beyond.
Has a wonderful ring to it, doesn’t it?
Well, as we were about to find out, it was a layer of deceptions.
Now, to be completely fair about this, neither my wife nor I have been back to this place in the last two years. In fact we left the state soon after this incident, and have not spoken with anyone connected to this place since then. But I don’t think things have changed that much. The founder and director of this place is still in power, and all of her cronies have positions of authority under her. So it leaves me thinking that this could happen again.
It started with little things, such as the demand that we put up all of our belongings, even though there was no place to put them, and most of our reference works were out so the membership could have access to them. We voluntarily decided to kick in on the rent by cleaning the place from top to bottom while we were the only ones there, so as to help them. A request was given to us for us to leave the center while some of the meetings were going on, and we complied. Now, we still didn’t have any place to go, but we found places, just so that we could get out of the way. After all, it was not our home, it was for everyone.
Soon, that was not enough. One day after moving everything in there, we were asked how long we would be there. Understanding that the community center was a business, we assured them that it would only be a week or two. Just enough breathing space to get back on our feet, and to find a place to live. Once again, my wife wasn’t working, and my daughter was being home schooled, so I was the sole income for the family. We even offered to pay for the utilities we were using. That was turned down.
On the second day, the director of the center asked us how long it would be until we were going. The overtones of the dialogue were “Here’s your hat, what’s your hurry…” We gave her the same answer we had given the day before, and were told we had a week. This is after we had been assured by her that we could stay as long as we needed to. This put us under a great deal of pressure, and we decided to start looking for someplace to stay.
We asked for the help that was offered, the movers or the loan that had been offered the first night, in the hopes that with those things, we would at least have a chance at succeeding. We were told that since we were now friends with one of the members, who was despised by most of the membership there, that “those who would have helped will not now.” This was devastating to say the least.
We went to the couches we were sleeping on in a uneasy state of mind.
The next day, we were told to summarily leave. The only reason that we could divine from them was that “they” meaning the board of directors (the director’s cronies) didn’t want us there, and that we were somehow unworthy of the aid we so desperately needed. So, we packed a couple of things, threw the rest of what we had into a closet, and left.
We were now officially homeless. And they knew it.
No one came forward to offer any help or aid, no place to stay, no food, nothing. The board of directors even began following us around town to see what we were doing. My wife was spending her time at a bookstore, while I worked, and my daughter did her schoolwork out of some workbooks we had previously purchased for her. When we could, we got a room, but most often we were forced to sleep in our car.
And then the threats began. Because of the followers, they knew where we were, and what we were doing. They began to question our sanity with statements like “Have you had yourself checked (by a psychiatrist)?” and “I turned my best friend in for child abuse, and I’ll do it again.”
They kept encouraging us to go to Social Services and sleep in one of the shelters, which we were loathe to do mainly because they kept trying to force us there.
We were still going to the community center, mainly because we had no place else to go. We cleaned, helped with events, planned for the future, and tried to keep as low a profile as possible. That’s when we noticed that there was rock salt all over our possessions. It puzzled me for a bit, until I realized that it was a purification ceremony, directed to get rid of us, so we wouldn’t “psychically attack” them through their possessions. Why would we bother? We had enough problems on our plate at that point.
The final straw came about when an event that I had been instrumental in coordinating, and starting (a role playing time at the center) was scheduled to start came around, after about two weeks. I showed up there to run the game, ready to go despite everything that had been happening, since I had committed to this, and promised. I show up only to be informed that the control of this had been given to another since I was not doing anything to care for my family, and that I was welcome to the door, and never to come back since “your kind (homeless) aren’t welcome here.”
I have never in my life been closer to a killing rage than I was at that moment.
Things eventually worked out, and we moved out of the state, but I keep wondering why they did this? A place where politics has no hold, and everyone is equal. The only reasons that I can come up with are these:
1) that this was truly a political place, as long as your politics are the same as everyone else’s, 2) they truly don’t care about anyone outside of their little group 3) they didn’t have the feel of the Gods and Goddesses in their hearts to guide them 4) that they didn’t realize they were violating their oaths.
I state these since in a previous encounter with the director had her telling me effusively that she was so grateful that I and my wife had given our loyalty to her. To which I stated that our loyalty was not for her, but to the ideal that she was trying to create. She lashed back at me about how “Since you are a Celt, and the Celts were loyal people you MUST give your oath of fealty to me.” I told her no. She would have to earn it. But that I would defend the center, and her to others if necessary. I was striving for a partnership, she wanted a slave.
From that time, things went down hill for us there. Rumors started, and continued long after we thought they were laid to rest. Some came to us for advice and for readings, only to be told that we didn’t know what we were talking about. Now between us, my wife and I have 25 years of active Pagan practice under our belts, but overnight we became equivalent to the “one book and I’m a Witch” newbies.
To say I was disgusted was an understatement. These members of the Old Ways were literally our last hope in the area, and we were rebuffed.
All I can say is this: Be careful what you promise, and be willing to follow through with all your promises.
During most people’s initiation, there is a line about “helping my brothers and sisters in the Craft” and so on. At least in my initiation there is. I would do anything I could do to help those in need, and have in the past. But it seems that this oath was conveniently forgotten when push came to shove, and we were in a desperate situation. Instead of being the helping hand they were supposed to be, they were another boot, kicking us when we were down.
Oathbreakers are universally despised, and usually hounded from the moment they break their oaths, and I think they are guilty of breaking their oath of solace. Pity that there will be no consequences to this. I pity the next desperate person who comes into their reach. That person may just find them self dead.
“Do not make promises you don’t intend to keep.” Pagan Rede part 2
Stars light your path
Update, July 7, 2003 It seems that I struck a nerve with this essay. To date: Maven Eller, the manager/owner/Director of Betwixt and Between has never responded to this essay, but her defenders are legion. Here is one set of posts/responses to this essay from one of her supporters, and my response to this person. The original quote from the above text is in bold. Her responses to my essay are in red and indented. My new responses to her are in the blue text you see here. Please note that I have not changed either the original essay or her responses in any way. And I stand by my original thesis that from the moment Maven opened her mouth and promised help she had no intention on following through on, she became an oath breaker. The threads can be found HERE and HERE for the parent discussion.
“Our daughter came back from spending the summer with her aunt, and they threw us out. With no provocation.”
Ok, so you moved your kid in to THEIR house, without their their authority, and since you WEREN’T PAYING ANY rent, utilities or anything, they saw this an infraction greivous enough to kick you out? Have I got that straight?
>>Not even slightly. First off the people we were then living with knew we had a child, and knew we were going to be bringing her along with us as soon as she got back from her aunt’s house. We were paying half the rent, all the utilities, and doing 90% of the housework there. We were constrained to one room and would have to have our daughter in that same room with us, and they knew we were making arrangements for our daughter to be with us. This was not as surprise. I can’t speak for what they saw or did not see, but what wound up happening is that my daughter protested their dogs jumping on her, and they demanded we move.
“Well, we had been in this community center for a while, and we decided to see what kind of solace we could get from our fellows in the Old Ways. Since it was an emergency, two or three people pitched in to help us move our possessions out of the house of those we had been living with, and into the center itself until we could find a place of our own.”
So he *DECIDED* to move his family into B&B, WITHOUT THE PRIOR AUTHORITIY, OR KNOWLEDGE OF ANYONE ON THE STAFF. (And from a later comment, also decided that they were just going to stay there a few weeks. Without bothering to INFORM anyone or GODDESS FORBID get their ok).
>>Again incorrect. We did have the permission of a staff member to move in there, and this was not our first decision. We went to see if there was room someplace to put us up in for a week or two (which we were excessively clear on) until we got back on our feet. He ( the staff member) offered the use of the center. We had him check with Maven, whom he then called to clear it with. She said “Certainly” and we proceeded to move in. Later that night we were asked how long, and we asked for a week or two to get things back together for ourselves. We were told, once again by Maven, that that time frame was fine. We had approval, and we offered to clean the place since we would be there, so no one else had to.
“Now mind you, this was a place that swore it was in existence only to give a neutral meeting ground for it’s members, and to give aid and shelter to those who needed it. A place where abuse was not tolerated, nor were persecutors allowed to flourish.”
Never did it say that it was a homeless shelter, crash pad, or hotel for anyone who “decides” (totally of their own accord!) to just move in.
>>But it says it is a community center to help those in the community in need. We were in need. She gave her permission for us to be in the center. And we had permission.
“It started with little things, such as the demand that we put up all of our belongings, even though there was no place to put them, and most of our reference works were out so the membership could have access to them.”
So his possessions (that nobody knew were coming, or had the opportunity to override) were strewn all about the place, and that’s Maeven’s fault, right?
>>No, they were incorporated into the decor, and 90% of what we had was in storage in Fort Worth, we had only what we absolutely needed with us (like clothes and a place to put those clothes), some books and research materials. We kept them out of the way of everyone, and many of the things were in a closet in the back. It was when we were told to put those items we had to have with us in storage about 40 miles away, unavailable to us to actually use. And we also had permission to have those things with us. I believe Maven’s comment was “Sure, keep them out of the way and it’s no problem to have your stuff here. I understand.”
“We voluntarily decided to kick in on the rent by cleaning the place from top to bottom while we were the only ones there, so as to help them”
As opposed to chipping in *MONEY* to pay the rent, and by the way, who was funding all your meals? Oh, B&B. Sorry. What a STUPID QUESTION!
>>We offered, but because they knew we were strapped for cash and needed it to get a new home, we were told to keep it. We did offer that first night. And B&B was hardly providing anything other than a roof over our heads and some slight electricity, which we took pains not to use. There was no food kept there at all. We had to buy our food out of the slender resources we had to get that food. Something like $20 per day for the three of us to live on until I got my check, most of which came from pawned possessions (which we lost BTW, not that you care).
“A request was given to us for us to leave the center while some of the meetings were going on, and we complied. Now, we still didn’t have any place to go, but we found places, just so that we could get out of the way. After all, it was not our home, it was for everyone.”
Ok, pal, tell ya what. One day, I want you to up and decide, since Microsoft has all this money and space, that you’re going to move into Bill Gate’s office, and ‘comply’ with him when he asks you KINDLY to get the fuck out of his way so he can get some WORK done at his BUSINESS.
>>Feel better? It’s not like this was a surprise or anything. The people who run the place knew, the first night that we would be there. We tried helping with the events. But when a men’s group meets at one end of the building and you are at the other, and they say they can’t do anything because of your wife and daughter who are not even paying attention, and they tell you to leave, what do you want someone to do?
“Soon, that was not enough. One day after moving everything in there, we were asked how long we would be there. ”
By whom? The staff? The director? Who UNTIL THAT VERY MOMENT HADN’T EVEN KNOWN YOU WERE THERE??? Who, had they been given the SIMPLE FUCKING COURTESY of OPPORTUNITY, would have TOLD YOU NOT TO MOVE IN TO BEGIN WITH? Because this is NOT what B&B is???
>>By Maven. And by her “second hand” Veronica. Both of them. Both of who knew what was going on, approved of it, and invited us in. “No, no, stay as long as you need to.” was the exact quote.
“Once again, my wife wasn’t working, and my daughter was being home schooled, so I was the sole income for the family.”
So here you are, homeless, and your wife refuses to work? Oh yeah, THAT’S Maeven’s fault, too! I’m sorry bub, but if I had a child and suddenly became homeless AND jobless, you can goddamned well bet I’d be waiting tables, bartending, stripping, scrubbing floors on my hands and knees, picking up other people’s trash outside, whatever. I damned sure wouldn’t DEMAND handouts.
>>My wife couldn’t work. Where the hell are we supposed to put a 5 year old if she was working? Who would take her in, and how the hell would we pay them? And talk to me when you have been homeless about what you will do. Yes, she was trying, but our options were really limited because of illness. (Just so you don’t blow a gasket, my wife is grossly obese, not that you care. It’s a genetic thing and because of it, she can’t stand on her feet more than a few minutes. Just where were we supposed to get her a job picking up trash where she could sit down every 15 minutes or so when we didn’t have access to a shower? And where were we supposed to find a sitter for our daughter? No one was offering anything other than sympathy. “Ohhhh, that’s really bad, are you going to be going to the homeless shelter soon? Let me tell you about the new computer I got.” )
“On the second day, the director of the center asked us how long it would be until we were going. The overtones of the dialogue were “Here’s your hat, what’s your hurry…” We gave her the same answer we had given the day before, and were told we had a week. This is after we had been assured by her that we could stay as long as we needed to. This put us under a great deal of pressure, and we decided to start looking for someplace to stay.”
And what the HELL did you do to help YOURSELVES in the previous three days, other than decide to move into a business that is NOT a homeless shelter, throw your belongings all about the place, be courteous enough to leave so people could conduct the mission the organization was chartered to do (as opposed to acting like you owned the goddamned place), and not work?
>>And your suggestion is…. My wife was looking for places to stay, trying to find someone to stay with, looking at ads in the paper that someone kindly bought us on Sunday. I was working, and trying to get a second job. My daughter was studying her 1st grade material. Any suggestions? I had a job, and I couldn’t be absent from it to go to the welfare department. We still were under the impression that the people at this center cared about us and would help us out. Apparently not.
“We asked for the help that was offered, the movers or the loan that had been offered the first night, in the hopes that with those things, we would at least have a chance at succeeding. ”
And who, pray tell, promised those things? NOT someone on the staff, with the authority to speak for the organization! The person who HAPPENED to be standing there when you showed up with all your shit! And, faced with a “do or die” consequence, let you in (which, honestly, I would have done myself).
>>Maven. “We will even get you some help from the people here to move into your new place when you find one. No problem. Need a loan?” She came by that first night, and we discussed this for about an hour. We did not spring this on them like you keep implying. Maven and Veronica knew what we were doing.
“We were still going to the community center ”
This indicates that by this point, you’d actually moved out to a more appropriate location.
>>Yeah, if you can call our car a more appropriate location, after we were thrown out.
“:::snip::: mainly because we had no place else to go and we were hoping to shame them into helping. ”
As opposed to, say, doing something to help yourselves…Hey now, THERE’S A GOOD IDEA! I’ll make everyone TAKE PITY ON ME and then *I* can live off of them! Why the hell doesn’t this smack of 00-dom to those of you who can’t stand her so fucking much???
>>I don’t know, looking for jobs, finding a place to live, trying to feed my family, looking into what was available in the charity stuff. Yeah, we didn’t do shit to help ourselves. Let me clue you in, we were doing everything possible to find money, find a place to live, trying to get a place to live. Until you have been there and done that, shut the fuck up.
“That’s when we noticed that there was rock salt all over our possessions. ”
Wait….In the previous sentence, you indicated you had moved out…what’s this? You “moved out” but left all your shit there? With nowhere to put it, so it was strewn all over the place still? So now B&B, in addition to being a rent free homeless shelter and expected to feed everyone who walks in the door, is now also a rent-free STORAGE UNIT?
>>No, you didn’t read correctly. There was a closet we were told to put our stuff into on the day we were tossed out. Maven gave us permission to use it since it was unused. She also said that some of the stuff we had, like the bookshelves and one chair could stay out so the members could use them. Those things were covered with the salt, like our clothes.
“They kept encouraging us to go to Social Services and sleep in one of the shelters, which we were loathe to do mainly because they kept trying to force us there. ”
So it’s ok to refuse to do anything to help one’s self, assuming someone suggests it, especially if you haven’t done anything to help yourself at all.
>>Our paperwork that showed us as a family was buried in storage someplace, and we couldn’t get to it since we were, by that time, past due on our rent. We had no way of proving that we belonged together and we would be forcibly separated had we gone to one of them. We did check this out.
“There was also the concern that the shelter would separate us as a family because all of our documentation (birth/marriage certificates was buried in our possessions and we could not get to them).”
Because they were strewn all the fuck out all over the center, and for four days you have no desire to even locate your own identification?
>>No because they were buried in a storage unit 40 miles away which we couldn’t pay for because we were so busy trying to find shelter. Even the cheapest hotel room was something like $40 a night, which is a lot when you have $20 or less (mostly less) for the day.
“I show up only to be informed that the control of this had been given to another since I was not doing anything to care for my family”
Small things such as, oh, HOUSING, FOOD…or even lifting a fucking finger to do them without someone “forcing” it on you.
>>Which we had been trying to find. This was supposed to be an event to relax and take our minds off the troubles we had been living with for the previous two weeks. I hope you are never in a similar situation.
Come on people, give me a fucking break. It’s glaringly apparent to me that it’s perfectly ok to do ANYTHING one wants, no matter how unacceptable it is otherwise, so long as you are dissing Maeven personally in the process.
>>I was sharing a story about how vicious people can get when it’s not them. Maven was responsible for a lot of our situation, mainly through knowing what was going on and not trying to help. We worked, we tried, we searched, we worked more, we did everything we could. Finally we called our parents, as a last resort. Then we got the help we needed. No thanks to anyone at the Center, who had promised to help. We had received multiple comments from the membership of “let me know when you are ready to move and I’ll help” and when we did, Ooohhhh the excuses that came out. Let me ask, were you one of them?
Maven finally responded to this. You will find her comments and my response here.
This happened sevenyears (sic) ago. This is written by a man who moved his homeless wife/child into the community center while I was at a movie. At this time B&B was not a non profit but owned soley (sic) by me.
Now let’s poll Paul of the Magick Cauldron, or perhaps Larry at the Flight of the Pheonix (sic) and ask them if they came back rrom (sic) time off and found that the (albiet (sic) well meaning) folks minding the store had moved in an entire family, beds, chest of drawers, everything previously in their apartment into their space, what they would do about such a circumstance. Let’s ask Cheryl from Center of Spirit too.
Well we gave them a week and they refused going to a shelter because they didn’t want to be seperated (sic). And all efforts to help them were not of their liking. At the time we had one bathroom in the first location of B&B and during classes and workshops, on two occasions they stripped down and tried to take baths from the small sink in the bathroom leaving the door open…even when we tried to politely ask them to refrain from such activiites (sic) they insisted on doing their level best to disrupt the scheduled activities…as if the beds and such about the place didn’t do that enough…but the end was the call from our landlord that they had opened up on the day I closed the shop and was open and went from door to door introducing themselves as the new managers of my business. They could not provide the care needed for their daughter, and Betwixt & Between could not accomadate (sic) a family. We tried peacefully to find them reasonable accomadations (sic) that were not living within the local community center, and they chose this route instead. More the pity.
They moved and on a regular basis email me updates from his blog and articles he writes about this and tries to submitt (sic) to orgs to print. Now lets all ask ourselves, if you found yourself homeless would the first move you made be to try to strong arm yourselves into any of your local pagan establishments? Probably most of you answered no.
We did not have the accomadations (sic) needed to care for a minor child, nor did our lease allow any live in occupants.
First off: Yes, it happened a while ago. But the point of keeping it alive is to make sure that no one else gets trapped by the promises you make and then screwed as we did. If my keeping this page up is going to help someone who is doing research on B&B to keep from being sucked in by you and your cronies Maeven, then so much the better. You are not all sweetness and light, you have massive control issues and you have to have people kissing your feet.
To answer your “charges”:
We did our level best to keep from being in the way when activities were happening. The Monday Night Men’s group meeting that happened while we were there, we stayed at the front of the store and talked in whispers or read while the men were at the back having their meeting. When asked to leave since we were not all men, and the men felt uncomfortable opening up in front of my wife and daughter (who weren’t listening or cared about what was happening), we went and sat in our car so we wouldn’t be a disturbance.
We were not given a week in actuality, we were given just a few days. Only about four days before you got didactic on us. We came there looking for someone to give us crash space, nothing more. We only needed a few days to find some place to move to, and somewhere we could sleep and take a shower. Kat, in fact, had such a place, with room for all of us. We wanted that, we didn’t want to live in your precious building, but when the “well meaning” person who was watching the store offered it to us, we had him call for permission. When we had it, we thought, “Great, they are really coming through for us.” Then you showed up and made it plain that despite your permission we were there on our best behavior. Not a promising start.
Those businesses you name? They are just that, businesses, not COMMUNITY CENTERS.
Opening up on a day you had it locked. Well, there you have us. We did. We opened the door so I could go to work. I left the building and came back later. My wife went outside. Yep, we did a bad thing.
Introducing ourselves as the new managers. When someone comes to the door and knocks and asks to speak to the manager, and we say that we are there but the manager isn’t, and he starts haranguing us with his product and we turn it down, that can be construed as us being the manager, I guess, if you are brain damaged. But we NEVER went around and introduced ourselves to other businesses as the managers. And it’s interesting how many of your enemies did that. This is the fifth time I have heard you say that people you didn’t like went around and introduced themselves as the manager of B&B.
Baths in the sink? Interesting that we actually wished to be clean. How could we? That’s just stupid. With no access to any shower facilities anyplace (we didn’t have a home remember?) how else are we to get clean? We closed the door and washed up in the sink. Sue us. How evil of us to do so. YOU and your people opened the bathroom door and walked in (before the center was open mind you) without checking and seeing if someone was in there.
Beds? How can the couches that you had in the back disturb? That’s what we slept on. Yes, we had one dresser and one rack of clothing that was covered with sheets when not in use. We had one chair we brought with us. The chair actually fit into the decor (what was that design scheme anyhow? Early Dump?) but the rest was hidden from view. But, if you say so….
All help given to us…. See, this one confuses me. The “help” you refer to was “I’ll turn in my best friend for child abuse” and “why don’t you move into your car” or “go to a shelter” with no information on where one was. No we didn’t want to be separated. Can you blame us? We have only ourselves to rely on. That was it. We did ask for help, crash space, a loan, movers, information on housing, and NONE of it was forthcoming from anyone. Oh, you did give us our $20 in dues back. Which we paid back since you were SO insistent that it was a loan. That was the sum total of your help. That and following us around and checking up on what we were doing.
I keep sending this to you because I want an explanation. I wanted to find out why you insisted on behaving in this reprehensible way. Guess it’s because you don’t really have a soul, do you?
If you would like to make an official statement, I will be more than happy to reprint it on this article.
Originally posted 2009-11-05 18:28:49. Republished by Blog Post Promoter